Angela Pugh (00:00.485)
record will need to stay on just usually a few seconds for it to upload both tracks. It’s usually pretty easy or it usually only takes a few seconds. Hello, my friend. Welcome back to Addiction Unlimited. I’m your coach, Angela Pugh. Today, we’re talking about something I think people desperately need more honesty about, and that’s what sober life actually looks like.

Not the Instagram version, not the polished, everything changed overnight and now I wake up at 5 a.m. to meditate every day version, but real life. Because one of the hardest parts about quitting drinking is that you’re being asked to walk toward a life you can’t fully picture yet. And when you’re on day one or five or even day 30, your brain is constantly asking, what will I do for fun? Will I still be me? Will I ever feel normal again? What does life even look like with life?

without alcohol. So today I wanted to have a real conversation about exactly that with someone I absolutely love and respect in the recovery space, Casey Davidson from Hello Someday podcast. Casey is a life coach, host of the Hello Someday podcast, and someone who has helped thousands of women change their relationship with alcohol in a way that feels approachable, honest, and actually doable.

And what I love about Casey is she talks about sobriety like a real human being, not like a guru, not like someone pretending life suddenly becomes perfect, just honest conversations about what it actually takes to build a sober life, especially when you’re standing at the beginning and you can’t quite imagine it yet. So today we’re talking about what we thought sobriety would look like, what was surprising, what was harder than expected, what was better than expected.

and how you start building trust in a future you can’t fully see yet. So let’s get into it. Casey, first of all, welcome and thank you so much for coming on and sharing this time with us.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (02:02.956)
thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here.

Angela Pugh (02:06.011)
Yeah, I think we’ve got a great topic to kind of get into and shed some light on. And we were talking before I hit record about, you know, kind of the picture when you’re sitting at the beginning of sobriety and so many people are trying to craft this vision of what the next 50 years of their life is going to look like. And it feels impossible because to a large degree, it’s impossible. You know, you’re

Thinking early on is gonna change so fast. You’re gonna become a different person so fast that your thinking on day one or day five is gonna be drastically different a month down the road. So that’s the conversation I wanna get into with you. And I would love to hear kind of at the beginning of your journey, what that thought process was like for you. Were you trying to craft every day and think, what is my life gonna be like and trying to make it perfect? You weren’t?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (02:56.91)
No, no, hell no, no, absolutely not. I mean, I think for me, and for a lot of the women I work with, the challenge is that quitting drinking, actually stopping drinking completely, not attempting to moderate, was literally my worst case scenario in life. Like I spent years where I was worried about my drinking, like not even…

denial like literally thinking to myself I have to figure this out and figure out how to moderate so that I never have to stop drinking completely and I don’t think that’s so unusual now not drinking turned out to be the absolute best decision of my life, but at the time when I was trying to moderate and failing and making the rules and all that stuff like

I didn’t want to stop drinking. And my coach said to me on day one, she said to me, nobody wants to stop drinking. You want to feel better. And you have to trust me that if you stop drinking, you will feel better. And I just had to go with that. She said that backpack of rocks you’ve been carrying around, you’re going to put down. And so on day one and day five and day 14 and 16, like,

I just had to hold on to that because it’s really hard, right? Your entire identity, for me at least, was like, I called myself a red wine girl. Like in my introductions to people, which is, as I look back, kind of sad, but it was so tied in to like some kind of a metaphor for who I thought I was. I was like.

I’m Casey, I’m a wife, I two little kids, I work in marketing, I’m a red wine girl, I live in Seattle. Like, it was a part of my identity. And because I was a seven, you know, night a week drinker, unless I was desperately white knuckling it to not, so much of my life was tied up in drinking activity, or drinking was paired with everything I did. So I couldn’t imagine my life without alcohol.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (05:14.766)
And I don’t think that’s unusual. So if you’re listening to this and you’re like literally I Feel awful. I know my drinking is a problem I know this is going nowhere good But I desperately don’t want to stop and I’m terrified of what my life will look like without alcohol like yep You’re right on target. Like that is norm

Angela Pugh (05:39.761)
Right on target. Yeah, for sure. think everybody, almost everybody certainly will be able to relate to that. I had all of those things too. And I do feel like, I always say this to my clients too, like that to me is the hardest place to be in. Like the trying to moderate space to me was the most miserable I ever was. It felt so much easier when I just stepped fully into not drinking.

because then I was fighting it all day long every day. Then it was just, okay, we don’t drink, dude. Figure something else out. What else are you gonna do? You know, like find relief another way. Find happiness another way. Find fun another way. Like we’re just not doing it.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (06:16.622)
100%, 100%, not drinking.

Yeah, you switch into solution mode. And I think when we’re drinking, not only are we miserable, because we are, except for those like two hours when we’re like Pavlovian dogs, we’re like, my god, I’m going to drink. But we also are constantly thinking about drinking or not drinking. So we’re miserable. And we’re constantly promising ourselves things and then quitting on ourselves.

Angela Pugh (06:25.894)
Yum.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (06:49.154)
We’re worried, but we’re also hung over. And then we’re also rationalizing. Like it’s a miserable place to be. It is so much easier to walk away from it, but not right in the beginning, right? That’s the, you kind of feel worse before you feel better because you’re in withdrawal, obviously, you have habits that are ingrained and you have all of these fears. But like my coach said to me, you have to trust.

Angela Pugh (07:04.711)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Pugh (07:10.245)
Mm-hmm.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (07:19.528)
all of these people who’ve come before you who say if you stop drinking you will feel better.

Angela Pugh (07:26.885)
Yeah, it is such a hard thing. the beginning, I feel like so many people want to minimize those early days. Like my clients will start a session and be like, well, I’ve only got 14 days today. And I’m like, dude, you need to celebrate every second of that because those days, those really early days are the true miracles, right? When you’re really shifting.

and really starting to shed that old identity and trying so hard to step into a new one and everything is unknown and uncomfortable and unfamiliar. Like those are the hardest freaking days. Those have to be celebrated more than anything else.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (08:09.228)
You need someone who gets it. I mean, I remember on day 12 sharing in a group, I was like, my God, I’m on day 12. This is the longest I’ve gone without drinking in two years. And my husband, if I had told him, he wouldn’t even register day 12. Like he’d be like, okay, like good for you. Nice, way to be healthy. But like it to me was like almost had me in tears. And honestly like,

Angela Pugh (08:27.474)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (08:30.844)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (08:38.862)
I’ve been sober for 10 years now, which I couldn’t even imagine getting to 100 days when I started. Like I hadn’t made it past day four in forever, but day 16 was literally the hardest day I’ve ever had. And what that is to say is in 10 years, I’ve never had a day harder than day 16 to not drink, which means you make it to day 20. You are a fucking bad-ass. You are amazing, you know?

Angela Pugh (09:05.479)
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. So when you were looking at it and still thinking about drinking, right, like you said, like you were trying really hard to not have to quit 100%. What did you think your life was gonna look like? Because I remember when I took a couple of breaks, neither time with the intention of quitting forever, right, just the typical, I think everybody does this on this journey.

but I quit for 30 days once and then I quit for 60 days once. And after 30 days, 30 days was my intention. And at 30 days, I was like, you know, here goes my alcoholic brain, right? Okay. Now we know we don’t have to drink every day. We can just drink on special occasions. Like this is fantastic. I’ve gone 30 days without drinking. I don’t have to drink every day, but I think that’s also a misnomer about the control issue or the

powerlessness in 12 steps, right? That lack of control that everybody talks about in addiction isn’t about how many days you can go without. It’s about what happens once you have a drink. And that’s where I would fall apart, right? I can go without. Without is not that hard. But if I have one, my whole trajectory changes and I don’t know what that’s gonna look like, you know? So when I quit, I was real clear.

that I didn’t have control over it. And I think that’s why I didn’t toy with a lot of the maybe just one, maybe this time it’ll be different. I felt like I had already put effort in, I failed. I knew I had no desire ever to have just one drink. Like that did not sound, that was so worthless to me. So I would never fall for that trap when my brain would pop up with that. But it is still terrifying trying to think about what your life is gonna be like without it because just like you, my in

higher identity revolved around drinking. I was a nightclub bartender. I was doing all the Hollywood parties. Like my whole life was partying. It’s hard to think about a new life without all that.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (11:12.31)
Yeah.

It really is. sort of unlike you, it wasn’t my profession. It wasn’t my livelihood. And yet it was ingrained in all the different parts of my life. It was how I relaxed. It was what I did on dates with my husband. It was what I did on anniversaries. We always went wine tasting. It was my one reward, my one thing. You know, because I worked full time.

Angela Pugh (11:30.749)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (11:41.676)
I had an eight year old, I had a two year old, big busy job. And you know, at that time, like I didn’t have a lot of things for myself. So if I was drinking, I could multitask, right? I could play Legos with a glass of wine in my hand. I could cook dinner. I could jump back on the computer after I got the kids to bed and answer emails. it was something that I was like, how can I give up my one reward? And I have to tell you that what

I tell women right in the beginning is don’t think about forever. Like, please, please, please. Even if you come to me and you’re like, I never want to drink again, this is bad. I’m like, that is fantastic. I love that you know that right down why. And then I want you to put that aside. And I ask women, I am not a moderation coach. If a woman comes to me and is like, I just want to drink on weekends or I just want to drink two glasses of wine a night, I’m like,

Angela Pugh (12:17.35)
No.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (12:39.68)
I am not the coach for you because I don’t think that works. I really don’t. And I think that you need to get some real distance from the drinking and withdrawal cycle before you can even evaluate the hold it has on your life. So I tell women, we have a joint goal to get you to 100 days alcohol-free continuously. And then…

We will look at it. And obviously I’m a sober coach. I don’t think women should go back to drinking. But at that point, you can see how much better you feel, how much better your relationships are, how much better your emotional stability is. Like you literally feel less anxiety and more happiness because physiologically what alcohol does to your body. And you also dispel a lot of those fears and limiting beliefs. In a hundred days, you…

Angela Pugh (13:12.945)
Right.

Angela Pugh (13:30.053)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (13:31.522)
have done a wedding, you’ve done a vacation, you’ve done a birthday, you’ve done a horrible stressful day, you’ve done a business trip. So you know it can be done, but I mean, when you haven’t gotten like me past day four in forever, you can’t imagine doing that. And so what I had to tell myself was it’s three months, I mean, three months and 10 days. I was like,

You know, I quit in February. I was like, you know what February, March and April looks like when you’re drinking. You know what that season looks like. You have no idea what your life could look like if you stopped drinking. Like what would you do this spring? Would you pick up new habits? Would you actually attend all your workout classes? Would you?

start bike riding, would you go hiking, would you read more? Because I didn’t read any, I’m the biggest reader and I did not read when I was drinking. Because who can keep both eyes focused, am I right? No, but yeah, so like get to that point. And then after that, I mean, it’s so much easier. But even at 30 days, people always do a 30 day goal, which is great. I think anytime without alcohol is great. And…

Angela Pugh (14:27.611)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (14:47.786)
it’s not enough because the first two weeks really suck. And then the last two weeks, you’re really counting down to drinking as your reward for not drinking. And you’re not building those muscles. You’re just white knuckling it. And also at 30 days, like your body is just reset, right? Like your dopamine is just back to normal. Your serotonin is just back to normal. You feel better. You’re not hung over. You’re more emotionally stable. You’re happier. But

Angela Pugh (15:06.012)
Yum.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (15:17.206)
You dive right back into drinking and all that progress is lost.

Angela Pugh (15:21.561)
Yeah. What was easier than you expected it to be?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (15:29.813)
I would say that after 20 days, I kind of cruised for a while. Like I felt a lot better. All those like, I call them the aftermath problems of drinking. like hangovers, guilt, overcompensating, my, you know, I had so much anxiety. I had so much like just the thinking about like, do I have enough? Like I just remember driving home every day and being like, do I have enough?

wine, which looking back is kind of pathetic, but that was the main thing I was thinking about. Like if I’d open a bottle of wine and my husband would have a glass, I’d be like, in my mind, obviously not out loud, because this would make me look really bad. I’m like, you fucking dick. Now I’m going to have to open a second bottle. Now it’s going to look bad. like, I need a bottle. Like I need that a night. Which weirdly

We’d been married 14 years. He didn’t think that was just odd, like that odd. Like I drank a bottle of wine and that was what I did. Somehow opening the second bottle on a Tuesday was where he was like, what are you doing? But all that thinking kind of went away by 20 days. And I was really proud of myself. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I was still terrified of going out to dinner. I still missed it. I still worried about what people thought of me.

Angela Pugh (16:42.043)
Right, right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (16:56.844)
But all that waking up at 3 a.m. and feeling like shit and feeling anxious, like that had gone away. And I had started being really proud of myself. So it surprised me that it changed that quickly.

Angela Pugh (17:14.469)
Yeah, I think I could agree with that. think a lot of people could agree with that. And I wonder if it’s because we build it up so much in our heads, right? Like we twist it up and overthink it and catastrophize it and we think it’s going to be so terrible. And then you get in it and it’s like, wow, okay. Especially like I can relate to what you’re saying about 20 days too. Like I had a major moment at 14 days where I really understood

how serious I was about it and how protective I was of my sobriety. And it was 14 days that I just had this moment that really locked it in. Like, oh wow, yeah, like I’m never drinking again, for sure, I’m done. And it is different after that. When you step into it in that way and that wholeheartedly, your game changes for sure. What, I just totally lost my train of thought.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (18:11.278)
Unlike you, and I think that’s amazing, unlike you, I did not have that moment about, okay, I’m never gonna drink again for a long time afterwards. Like I set my goal for 100 days. When I hit that, I was just so proud of myself. I just, I wrote like this huge letter to myself. I just, I felt so good. So I had no intention of drinking.

Angela Pugh (18:22.577)
Mmm.

Angela Pugh (18:28.399)
Mm-hmm.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (18:38.028)
But my next goal was 180 days, which was six months. And that was interesting because in those next 80 days, I was going to Italy and Croatia with my husband and my mother was coming and my sister like trigger, trigger, trigger. And like my, mean, I was a red wine girl going to Italy and my husband and I love to drink on vacations. Like that’s what we did. Luckily I had my coach. I knew

Angela Pugh (18:53.85)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (19:07.95)
all the things. I had a group. And I knew that if I drank on day 120, it could take me months or years to get back. Like there was no guarantee and I’ve seen this so many times. Like you drink on a vacation, you think you’re going to come back and stop. Like it’s almost harder the next time because of the novelty has worn off and you’re disappointed in yourself. But I told my husband, I was like, okay, I’m going to go for six months. And he literally stopped and was like,

Angela Pugh (19:32.167)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (19:38.272)
you’re not drinking in Italy. And I was like, no, no, I feel really good. I want to I’m going to keep going. And he was like, okay, you’re not drinking in Italy. And I mean, obviously, I interpreted that to be he’s bummed. I’m boring. He’s not like I’m ruining his vacation. All those kinds of things. But I had Yeah, like

Angela Pugh (19:55.493)
Right, right.

Angela Pugh (20:00.785)
He’s not supporting me.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (20:04.64)
And you’re like, my God, this is bad for my relationship. Whatever it was. And also that was crazy because at 30 days, he told me how much better and calmer and more peaceful our household was. He was just like, you seem more even. I know which Casey I’m gonna get when you come home. You’re just happier. Our house is calmer, which is so true. Because I used to come home like.

Angela Pugh (20:20.605)
Hmm.

Angela Pugh (20:24.871)
Mm-hmm.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (20:33.536)
super high or super low and outraged about this and you know, which was honestly like just gearing myself up for a reason to drink. Like that was why I was doing it. Like I deserve this. Life is so hard. This my boss did X, but that was big. And then at six months I was like, okay, I have zero intention of going back to drinking, but I was like, I’m going to do a year. I’m going to see exactly.

like what an entire year not drinking feels like. And it was at a year that I was like, I think I’m done. I’m done. You know?

Angela Pugh (21:12.219)
I wonder if it depends too on, you know, because we always talk about rock bottom moments and my rock bottom was very serious and terrifying. I almost killed someone. Like it was a big deal. So I think like that really locked it in for me. Like I knew the level of seriousness. I also knew that if I drank again, because the last few years of my drinking, you know, the majority of my years of drinking were a blast.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (21:25.325)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (21:42.043)
I mean, it was a complete waste of life. I was not accomplishing anything or growing and evolving as a human. None of that was happening, but I had a lot of fun. But the last few years when I got really out of control in my drinking and was really burying myself in alcohol, I always say I had three stages of life, right? I was planning drinking, doing the drinking or recovering from drinking. That was my entire life. That’s all I had, you know, but it got dark.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (22:06.478)
100%.

Angela Pugh (22:11.099)
Right? At that point, I had broken my self-trust enough. I had lost enough integrity, self-esteem, like all the things. I was just a really sad, broken, depressed person. I hated myself. I hated my life. I was disgusted with myself. So for me, when I would think about relapse,

I was like, there’s no way I would survive it. In fact, if I drank, it would kind of be a death mission. I would not drink and be like, woo, this is gonna be fun. I would be like the leaving Las Vegas dude, drinking myself to death on purpose. You know, like that’s all it would be. And so I think I understood for me in my drinking the enormity of what was at risk.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (22:50.37)
Yeah. Yeah.

Angela Pugh (23:00.357)
And that made it a lot easier to really lock into it and just be like, I’m not fucking around with this dude. Like I’ve got to get it together. I have to have a different life because the alternative was disgusting, you know? So, and I had the same thing in the very beginning. And that’s why I say, think that two week Mark was so big for me because I too, even when I first started going to AA, I still had it in the back of my head the first couple of weeks that maybe I’ll get to a place that I can just drink on special occasions.

I’ll just drink on my birthday on New Year’s Eve. yeah, so I still had that also. It was floating around back there. But yeah, it is different.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (23:36.75)
Yeah, think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. And I did something that actually really helped me with that certainty the second time I stopped drinking. like, okay, if you are listening to this and you have tried and gone back to drinking and tried and gone back to drinking, first of all, join the club, right? Like I know very, very few people who have not done that.

Angela Pugh (24:02.011)
Yes.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (24:06.414)
And I think you should look at all those attempts as something that can help you now. If you have sober momentum, please, dear God, do not drink thinking it’ll help you next time. No. But I had, I was, my son was five. I somehow gauge everything in terms of how old my kids were. So my son was five and I was really unhappy.

Angela Pugh (24:12.803)
for sure, yeah.

Angela Pugh (24:17.627)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (24:34.604)
drinking way too much and worried about it. And which is funny because both times I quit, my life was actually pretty damn good. And yet I was angry and sad and resentful and defensive. I mean, that’s what alcohol does to you. But I went to a therapist who I specifically chose because he said he specialized in anxiety and addiction. And I went in there and I was like,

Angela Pugh (24:51.89)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (25:03.278)
my god, my boss and my husband and the pressure and my five-year-old and XYZ and I drank a bottle of wine a night and He was like, alright, let’s talk about your drinking and I was like, no, let’s talk about my boss, you know, thank you, but He encouraged me to stop this was 13 years ago So back in the day there really was only AA like that’s what everyone knew it’s a whole different world now and so I went to AA

Angela Pugh (25:27.205)
Yeah. Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (25:33.234)
and turned out not to be my jam. I ended up getting sober a different way. But when I went to AA for four months, and I went like three times a week, and it did help me stop drinking. And then I got pregnant with my daughter. And so I kind of did that like slow shuffle back, like trying to be like, nothing to see here, I’m all good. And after she was born, I

not drank for a year or whatever the math was on that 14 months. And in my mind, I said, I’m better. Like, I’m happier, my marriage is better, I’m less stressed at work, like, I’m more emotionally stable, dot, dot, dot, therefore I can drink again. And I never associated the fact that all that shit was better because I was not drinking. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

My life was better. I was more emotionally stable. I was happier. My marriage was better. I was less stressed at work because I wasn’t constantly drunk and hungover. But my mind didn’t work it that way. So I went back to drinking and any period of time without drinking will wake you up to what happens when you’re drinking. It took me 22 months to stop again. And those months were not all good.

Very few of, you I was a seven night a week drinker, a bottle, sometimes more. This is not feeling great, you know, and it is masking everything. But it was really hard to stop. I finally woke up, you know, nothing terrible happened. Nobody told me I needed to stop drinking. I got certainly some side eye from a few people, including my husband, but I was super defensive about it. I tried, I did everything I could to like,

not admit I was hungover, pretend I remembered what we discussed the night before. I I was getting up at 530 three days a week to work out with a bottle of wine in my belly and a brutal hangover. So I was working really hard and then got to the point where, you know, death of a thousand cuts, like 17 things that happened in the month before, which by the way, those 17 things that happened a million times, but

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (27:55.104)
I had so much awareness and I just was like, cannot do this to myself anymore. was worried about that I was really going to fuck up my life, like my marriage and my kids and my health, and it was going to be my own fault. And so I hired a coach and I wasn’t like, my God, I want a sober life. This is going to be awesome. I was like, I cannot keep doing this to myself. I am going to fuck up my life. That was where I was.

Angela Pugh (28:24.935)
That’s where the best sobriety starts from is exactly that place. Yes, because people talk about rock bottom, like rock bottom has to be a moment like mine, right? Where I crashed my car and thought I killed somebody. Rock bottom is emotional. It is the very moment you hit internally that’s exactly what you said. I cannot live like this anymore. It doesn’t always have to be an extravaganza. It is an emotional, internal moment.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (28:25.224)
And really, yeah, yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (28:39.298)
Yes.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (28:50.594)
And in AA, they do say, I mean, I picked up a lot of sort of phrases and wisdom for it, but something about like your bottom is whenever you stop digging and my God, I am glad I stopped before anything horrible happened. First, it’s easier, right? You are less physically addicted to it. You have often more resources when you don’t go that deep. But also, I’m so glad that I didn’t actually fuck up.

Angela Pugh (29:08.837)
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (29:22.838)
my life. But like you said, in terms of that certainty, I mean, I’d gotten to, I got back from Italy and Croatia, some stuff happened at work, like my key guy left and my boss was a nightmare and whatever. And I was sober this time, so my boss was legitimately a nightmare. She was tough. And I went, like, I wanted to jump out of my skin. I wanted to run away and quit. I was doing the thing where like,

Angela Pugh (29:23.249)
Yeah, yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (29:50.752)
I was laying in my bed in the dark at 7 p.m. Just, you my husband would come in and be like, what’s going on? And I was like, he’s like, talk to your boss, do this, do that, which when men do that, that’s so helpful. I’m rolling my eyes. And I was like, babe, you don’t get it. I am trying to get through this moment. I went to my doctor and I was like, I cannot go back to drinking, but I cannot feel this way anymore, so you have to help me.

Like that was where I was, but the certainty was there. So got me on some anti-anxiety pills. I started seeing a therapist. Here’s what’s amazing. Turns out your therapy on those meds, doing all this stuff, finally talked to my therapist over and over and she was so tentative with me. She was like, I’m gonna say something and tell me how you feel about this, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, I think you might have a mood disorder.

Angela Pugh (30:20.379)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (30:48.902)
And she was like, because certain things should have triggered your anxiety and they didn’t. again, think there’s no trigger and you have just gone into the state, the state where I’m like vibrating in my bed in the dark trying to get through the moment. And then it lifts. I had been writing my coach every day. So I literally knew when it descended, how it felt and when it lifted. And I was like,

I don’t give a shit what you call it. You’re telling me I don’t have to feel this way anymore? Like, God damn, yes. And I got on medication in 10 years. I’ve never felt that again. But the beauty is that I never would have figured that out if I was drinking ever because I blamed myself every time I got to that state. And I thought it was a personal failing. I thought I did it to myself and thank God I didn’t drink it for months because that was the moment.

Angela Pugh (31:35.877)
Yes.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (31:46.818)
when I was like, I can’t go back to drinking, you have to help me. I I probably had that my whole life. And my world has changed and it’s beautiful and it really is best decision ever. But like, you gotta remove the thing that you’re just dragging you down so you can see your world clearly.

Angela Pugh (31:54.119)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (32:06.821)
Yeah, for sure. What a huge moment too. You reminded me of, you know, that’s how I felt about being an alcoholic. It was this huge relief, right? Like not many people would look at a mood disorder and think that’s going to be a huge relief. I was the same way when it was like, shit, I’m an alcoholic. okay. Because then I knew what to do about it. Then I understood there was a solution.

So that never felt shameful to me, right? To me, that was the door opening to my new life, right? It was 1000 % the solution.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (32:42.126)
Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know this, I don’t personally use the word alcoholic because I’m not part of a 12 step program. And I, I, I don’t think it, you know, it matters or how you identify. but I, you know, like I said, I had burned my hand on that hot stove enough to know that putting my hand on a hot stove was going to burn me. And so I finally freaking got it that like, I can’t

Angela Pugh (32:49.051)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (33:11.746)
I can’t drink, I don’t want to drink, it will just drag me down. And that’s what the substance does. And so the way I ended up moving forward was I was just like, I don’t fuck with alcohol anymore. Like, I know where it takes me. It is nowhere good. The ROI on that is not there. You know, like I’m, yeah. So I look at people are like, don’t you ever want to drink? And I’m like, of course, not often, not, not all the time. That’s what people are afraid of.

Angela Pugh (33:24.871)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Pugh (33:31.715)
Not good.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (33:41.622)
on day five, they’re like, my God, I cannot live the rest of my life feeling this way. I cannot survive a lifetime of cravings and wanting and not getting, and I’m like, you won’t. Like that’s the beauty, that goes away. But occasionally I see someone like having a glass of wine at, you know, a beautiful table in Italy and I’m like, I want that. But the trade-off is not worth it.

Angela Pugh (33:47.396)
Yes.

Angela Pugh (33:53.605)
Yes. Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (34:10.934)
Like I’m just like, yeah, do I really want to go back to hating myself and feeling shame and crushing anxiety for that glass of wine? Because I’d done it before, because I told myself I would just have quote unquote a couple glasses on a date night. Yeah, so it’s similar, just different language, right?

Angela Pugh (34:11.346)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (34:26.78)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (34:31.612)
right.

Angela Pugh (34:36.699)
Yeah, the only time I get bothered by the language conversations is when people are really putting a lot of energy into that. And I’m like, dude, it doesn’t matter. I don’t give a fuck what you want to call yourself. It doesn’t matter at all. You have to understand that this is not good for you and you don’t do it well. That’s all. I don’t care what you want to call it, but people will pour so much energy into fighting the labels or fighting going to meetings, whatever meetings, you know.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (34:45.592)
Hmm. It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t matter.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (34:55.224)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Angela Pugh (35:06.577)
People put so much energy into fighting the stuff. And it’s like in 12 Steps we talk about, you got to get to a place of surrender. Like when I do consultation calls, I know someone is really ready to get sober when they’re not fighting anything anymore. That’s how you know you’re really ready. I don’t know, I can’t sit here and tell you I wanted to go to AA. Nobody is sitting around as a little kid going, I can’t wait to grow up and go see what AA is doing. Nobody’s doing that, right? Like it’s not the top of anyone’s list of activities to do.

But I understood, I would have done anything they told me because I wanted to be sober, period. I wanted a different life. So I know you’re ready when you have no fight left. When you’re open and you’re like, just tell me what to do and I’m happy to do it. Then I’m like, fuck yeah, let’s get this party started. Because this is gonna be good, you know? But yeah, that’s the only time I get, yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (35:57.038)
Yeah, yeah. I don’t think labels matter at all either. I think the only challenge is if the label holds you back from stopping, right? Like if, I think women can spend, I spent years being like, do I just abuse alcohol? Am I an alcoholic? This was before I stopped the first time. was like, cause if I just abuse it, I can abuse it less. Like that was what I held onto.

and you could spend all your time debating if you are quote unquote bad enough to stop drinking if you are quote unquote alcoholic. Like just put that away, just begin. Just know alcohol makes you feel like shit and trust that you will feel better without it and give yourself the opportunity to see, treat it with creativity and as an experiment and with optimism, but like fucking throw everything at it.

Angela Pugh (36:37.975)
Exactly.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (36:54.444)
Right, like you have tried half-ass measure.

Angela Pugh (36:54.616)
everything.

Right. But also, I think you have to treat it with love. And this is something we forget to, especially women. It is, this is about loving yourself. And I think that is one of the greatest challenges because we get to a place that we are so disappointed in ourselves and we do not respect ourselves. We have let ourselves down so much. We have let down the people around us. We have lied and been deceitful. Like there’s so much that goes with this thing.

And it’s hard to shift into, like recovery is about loving yourself now. It’s, am no longer making a choice to hurt myself on a daily basis. Instead, I’m going to do things to love myself by not drinking, by drinking water, by getting some sort of exercise, by sharing with other people and letting them share with me. Like that is self-love.

And that’s what recovery really is. And that’s one of the hardest identity shifts because we’re so negative in such a bad place when you’re sitting at day one.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (38:03.182)
Yeah, mean, 100%. I remember being at my son’s like freaking tea ball practice in, you know, first two months and it was sunny out and I was almost in tears and the only thought that was going through my mind was this is the kindest thing I have done for myself in years. Like this, like hiring a coach, stopping drinking, getting support.

Angela Pugh (38:25.905)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (38:32.438)
was the kindest thing I’d done for myself. And I think, you know, loving yourself like you were talking about is so spot on because you have to also have compassion for yourself. alcohol is freaking addictive. Alcohol is everywhere. Alcohol is pushed on you. You are brainwashed from birth to sink, like to believe that alcohol is a privilege of adulthood and you are somehow weird if you don’t drink.

Angela Pugh (38:43.715)
Yes, yes.

Angela Pugh (38:53.98)
Yum.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (39:01.742)
And the substance is working as designed. is meant to help have you drink more and more often. is meant, the substance makes you feel like shit. And yet, you know, big alcohol loves the idea of drink responsibly because that puts all the onus on you of somehow consuming an addictive substance in a quote unquote responsible way. And none of it on the substance they’ve designed like

It’s just amazing. you know, thinking that by stopping drinking, you are really actually taking care of yourself for the first time in years. That is so helpful. And also I feel like we’ve gotten so I mean, I did like drinking was the easy button, right? Like bored drink, happy drink, like angry drink, frustrated drink. And once

Angela Pugh (39:49.133)
yes, for sure.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (39:57.006)
you stop drinking when you get past, those first three weeks, it forces you to get creative. And we’ve been so lazy. So it’s like, I’m resentful. Okay. Let’s do, know, resentment is almost always a boundary that’s being violated or that you need to put down. Like, I am frustrated. Okay, I’m stressed. Okay, I’m bored. You can solve for that shit. Like there are a million things you can do if you’re bored.

Angela Pugh (40:24.828)
right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (40:27.138)
but we’re so used to just going to drinking. You know, in that case, like, yeah, you get to expand your universe of rewards, right? And that’s fun. I mean, not at first. I’m not trying to say early sobriety is fun.

Angela Pugh (40:32.815)
Instant gratification. We love instant gratification. Yeah.

But it makes you so lazy too. think I just said this in a recent episode, but like alcohol just makes you so lazy. Like I could hang out with people I didn’t like and I would just have drinks till I didn’t care, right? I could go places I didn’t like, I could engage in activities I didn’t like, and I would just drink till I didn’t care. And that’s one of the reasons too, when you’re sitting in early sobriety trying to imagine your life, you don’t have your numbing agent.

It’s like now you have to actually put thought and effort into what your new life is going to look like. I have to actually think about what do I actually enjoy? What do I really want to do? And we’re just not used to doing that. We just drink until we don’t care anymore.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (41:19.661)
now.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (41:23.49)
Yeah. Yeah. I always tell women, I’m like, I think you need to build your sober bubble for at least a month. Like don’t go to drinking events. Don’t go to places where you normally drink. But, and like that means real self care, right? Like go to bed early, move your body, sleep well, read a freaking book. Yes. Yes. But after that, people are like, this won’t be any fun if I don’t drink. And I’m like, maybe it’s just not fun.

Angela Pugh (41:41.917)
Well, that means boundaries.

And we are not good at that.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (41:53.002)
You know what I mean? Like, maybe you don’t like that shit. I don’t know.

Angela Pugh (41:56.505)
Right. Maybe it has nothing to do with drinking or not drinking. It’s so true though. I I thought I was an extrovert and really I was just drunk. And then I got sober and I’m like, damn, like I’m not an extrovert at all. I’m not a super social person. I mean, I’m very social. I love to talk and connect and all of those things, but I’m an introvert. I’m not a group person, right? I like small numbers and intimate conversations and I want to connect on a soul level.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (42:00.705)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (42:09.816)
Mm.

Angela Pugh (42:24.078)
And when it’s time to recharge, I got to do that shit alone, right? Like that is not going to be in a loud space. I need peace and quiet. It is so different. I love the sober bubble. And this is one of the things I would say, I think has become more challenging with all the changes on the recovery landscape. It is such a different world now.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (42:29.262)
Yes.

Angela Pugh (42:46.926)
And I kind of miss the simplicity of the old days. And I know I sound like an old timer and I am an old timer. I just celebrated 20 years. I’m an old timer. There’s nothing I can do about it. Thank you. Thank you. But it was so simple back then. It’s like you said, like it was just AA. I didn’t have to go through all the fighting of who am I going to call and what am I going to do and where am I going to go? Because there wasn’t anything. It’s like, this is where people go to not drink.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (42:56.174)
Amazing. Congratulations, by the way. That is huge. Huge.

Angela Pugh (43:14.446)
And I knew I wanted to be a people that didn’t drink. So I went there, you know, like it was just very simple. And I pared my life down to the sober bubble. I only did things that were fully supportive of my sobriety. I only hung out with people that were fully supportive of my sobriety. And that was my bubble. And it was beautiful. There’s so much beauty and simplicity, you know, and even today I say like,

It took me a long, long time. You know, I’m in my mid fifties. It took me a long time to love myself. And now I love to love myself. I love to be in my little bubble, in my sanctuary at home with only bubble approved people, mostly my nieces and nephews and family. But, you know, I love being in my bubble and just taking care of myself. And that’s something that I never had the opportunity.

to even consider when I was drinking, right? It was so different.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (44:13.934)
Yeah. Well, I think it’s interesting too, because I think one of the fears that women have when they stop drinking is, oh my God, I’m going to lose all my friends. I will never be able to go to a concert, thing, the girls weekend again. I am going to have to change everything about my life. And for me,

Angela Pugh (44:27.195)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (44:42.302)
That didn’t happen. I did. I didn’t go out to dinner with my husband for 40 days. I mean, that changed. I had to get really creative about our dates. I had to ask him to get all of the wine out of the house. To this day, I don’t have red wine in my house. Why would I? I don’t drink. So he still drinks beer. I drink non-alcoholic beer and, you know, non-alcoholic.

Angela Pugh (45:01.03)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (45:10.914)
Prosecco and whatever. I mean, it depends whether it’s triggering to you or not. To me, I still stay away from non-alcoholic red wine. But you build your sober bubble, you get stronger, and then you get real clear with, I told everyone I didn’t drink. Because if I was such a big drinker that if I was ever like, no, thanks, people would be like, what the fuck? Are you pregnant?

Angela Pugh (45:15.301)
Right.

Angela Pugh (45:36.292)
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (45:39.034)
or whatever. So I told everyone like I am having, I’m doing a hundred day no alcohol challenge. I’m not drinking at all. I was like, my God, I’m on day 40 of a hundred day no alcohol challenge. Like I could not, not tell people, but once you know, I got through that, my life is actually very similar, right? I still have all my own drinking friends. I still,

married the same guy for years. I had the exact same high pressure job, the same colleagues, but I had support outside of those people. I had my coach, I had my group. I signed up for a program when I was 60 days alcohol free because I knew I was going on that European trip and I was like, I need all the support to not drink. So I immersed myself in that world. I told everyone, so like there were no

Angela Pugh (46:28.56)
Hmm.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (46:36.428)
before I’d kind of told some people, but not other people, know, keeping that door open. And that really helped me. Now, after two years, or I don’t even know when, like, I remember at 60 days, I went out to a dinner with another couple at a fancy restaurant, and I was terrified. And I was just like, what do I tell them? What will they think? What will I say when the person

Angela Pugh (46:41.861)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (47:04.398)
comes over and offers me a drink. And so you need help doing that block and tackling. You need to plan it out. But yeah, I go to bars. I get non-alcoholic beer. I go to concerts. They are so much better not drinking. my god, they’re so much better. Sex is better. Like all the things you thought you couldn’t do without drinking, you can. But you need support and you need time.

Angela Pugh (47:11.025)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (47:32.482)
and you need perspective and you need tools.

Angela Pugh (47:36.093)
For sure. I think one of the most important things, because you can probably relate to this too, is like, early on, you start wanting to test yourself, right? I know for me, I was like, well, I’m not just gonna lock myself in my house forever and never come out, right? So you start thinking like, okay, could I go to the bar? Would I be okay with that? Could I go to the barbecue? Am I gonna be okay at the neighborhood party, the pool party, whatever? You wanna start testing the waters. And I think the…

The true way to gauge what you’re ready for is to think of the very moment that somebody offers you a drink or puts a shot in your face. Are you 100 % sure that in that moment, in that split second, do you trust yourself to say no?

And if you trust yourself in that moment to be like, fuck off, dude, I’m out. Then great, go try it. But if you don’t trust yourself implicitly in that exact moment, then you are not ready to go yet. Don’t even, don’t walk into the lion’s den, just chill out, you know?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (48:29.731)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (48:37.61)
No, and like, girl, don’t like

Yeah, and one thing I would say is yes, like I wasn’t going on a girls weekend for five days when I was on day 30. That is a recipe of setting yourself up for failure. I would meet my girlfriends for walks and brunch, not for happy hours and dinner. You know what I mean? Like I would go out during the day and come home. Like I said, I told everyone, so if I was going to a party, know, Super Taj didn’t say more, but I’d be like,

Angela Pugh (48:47.906)
Right, right.

Angela Pugh (49:00.73)
right.

Angela Pugh (49:06.502)
Right.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (49:11.616)
by the way, you know, think of like going over to a girlfriend’s house where normally you drink two bottles of wine and everybody drinks. I’d be like, super excited to see you. It’s going to be so much fun. By the way, I’m doing a health challenge where I’m not drinking. I’m going to bring my own stuff. Can’t wait to see you. Like it was out there before I got there. So people knew. So it wasn’t like you want to drink. I’m like, you know, I’m not drinking. And you don’t have to face that like deer in the head like questions.

Angela Pugh (49:30.639)
Yeah, yes.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (49:39.416)
But one thing I will say when you’re talking about, like we are about envisioning your life without drinking, my world, I thought it would get smaller. It got so much bigger, so much bigger. And I did not expect that. I remember like driving across the bridge, Seattle is all like bridges and hills across this gorgeous lake at like 7 a.m. on a Saturday for something, which by the way, I would never schedule anything for 8 a.m. I mean, that’s insane on a Saturday.

Angela Pugh (49:50.406)
So much bigger.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (50:08.93)
And there were all these people out there like running and biking and talking. And I was just like, my God, do they do this every weekend? Like there’s a whole universe out here that I didn’t even know about. Like I did this wander less triathlon. was like a 5k and a dance party and yoga and meditation. Like it was freaking amazing. Like there is so many, I got my bike tuned up. went biking, none of this stuff.

Angela Pugh (50:22.438)
Same, yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (50:37.696)
I used to do. I used to like grit my teeth, try to get through the day, debate whether I had enough wine, by the way, all with a huge smile on my face, because like, hee this is awesome. And it was just, I picked up so many new habits. I made so many friends. I had so much more confidence. I did not expect that.

Angela Pugh (50:47.227)
Right.

Angela Pugh (51:01.7)
Yeah, I didn’t expect my friendships to be so much more valuable. So I think that’s another thing when you’re sitting at day one and you’re looking at your friend group, right? That is predominantly you’re drinking people. And of course it feels heartbreaking to leave your friends behind, you know, like you don’t want to think about like, what, I’m not going to be able to hang out with these people anymore. But I was the same as you. I gave all of my friends the opportunity to spend time with me.

I was saying, hey, do you want to go grab breakfast? Do you want to go get a coffee? Do you want to go shopping with me? Do you want to go for a hike with me? I gave them the opportunity to do sober things with me, right? And they just weren’t in that state of mind. It doesn’t mean I love them less or that they love me less. It’s just that our paths changed a lot. But I would have thought that those people were, those were my closest people that I spent the most time with. And then you get sober, right?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (51:54.382)
That’s really disappointing. Like you must have been sad.

Angela Pugh (51:57.977)
Yeah, but I’m a very logical person. I’m not a super emotion-based person. So it was logical to me too that I understood that the thing that held us together was drinking. That’s what we did together. I wasn’t calling them crying in the middle of the night having heart-to-heart conversations. We drank together and that was it. So when I got sober, I was surprised at how deeply

I connected with especially other sober people because I believe we connect and love each other in a way that we don’t experience with other people because you only understand this beast if you live with it. And another person that lives with it and knows it with the same intensity and knows it from the inside out, we just connect differently. And I’ve never…

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (52:47.128)
There is like this short end. You can say anything and they’re like, yeah, I gotcha. Anything. It doesn’t even have to be about drinking.

Angela Pugh (52:51.248)
Got you, yep, yep. That’s what I love about the one liners and all the phrases because it’s just this enormous amount of meaning in a few words and it’s a shorthand. It’s beautiful, you the one day at a time. Like those little things will really carry you. But yeah, I was just surprised at how much more fulfilling the friendships were when I had a clear mind and was able to be a little bit more vulnerable.

which you’re able to do with other sober people, right? Again, it’s you just connect in a different way. You don’t feel embarrassed or shameful or weak or whatever all the things are that we feel sitting in that space. We feel so broken. But with other sober people, it’s like, yeah, dude, we’re all fucked up. It’s cool. I love you, you know?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (53:20.866)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (53:37.784)
Yeah, I love, love, love hanging out with women specifically who’ve stopped drinking because like, okay, first of all, they’ve done a lot of work. They, you just have to, right? They are real, they are aware of their emotions. They are more vulnerable. Number two, they have the best stories. I have never laughed harder with women who used to drink a ton and didn’t like the stories. Like,

Angela Pugh (53:43.373)
so good.

Yeah.

Angela Pugh (53:55.856)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (53:59.769)
Yeah!

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (54:05.866)
At some point they get hysterical. And three, they are a ton of fun. Like once you get away from it, it’s awesome. And I actually didn’t lose all my friends. I stopped hanging out with people I didn’t really like, which you mentioned that. Like some of my coworkers are like, my God, we’re going to this place in Seattle. like, in my mind, of course I didn’t say this. I was like, dude, I don’t even like talking to you here. I’m not going to drive to a bar to sit around and talk to you.

Angela Pugh (54:11.953)
Yeah.

Angela Pugh (54:22.18)
Right. Yeah.

Angela Pugh (54:32.986)
Right. I’m not gonna go out of my way, yeah, to sit sober and try to deal with you.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (54:35.488)
it was sober. Yeah, like that’s insane. But like my good, good friends, even the people who drank like I drank, I kept them. And I think by me being vulnerable and being like, no, actually, it was taking me nowhere good. Like once I got through the beginning part, they opened up to me and our friendship got so much deeper and

Angela Pugh (54:56.412)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (55:02.4)
maybe it wasn’t about drinking, maybe it was about their marriage or their fears or their struggles with their kids or they didn’t like their life or they didn’t but like the quality of our connection got so much deeper because I wasn’t just masking everything I was feeling. You know people used to ask me like even my best friends like how are you doing? I’d be like my god I’m so busy like that was my thing or like I’m stressed out.

Angela Pugh (55:05.862)
Right.

Angela Pugh (55:29.862)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (55:31.64)
But it wasn’t like, damn, here’s how I’m feeling right now. Here’s what I’m worried about. Here’s, you know, or this is amazing. This is what I’m excited about. like it’s just deeper and better. And the people you don’t really like without drinking, like you don’t really like them actually. And they’re not very good friends. So you can ditch them. And that’s cool. Cause you’re going to find even better people.

Angela Pugh (55:52.518)
Right.

Right.

Yeah, all of my closest like forever people, of course, are still my closest forever people. But it was just those surface level people that I was doing the most drinking with when I quit, right? That really drinking was the only thing that held us together.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (56:13.646)
Yeah, the other thing that’s interesting. So I had a group of like 10 girlfriends, like we called ourselves the village, we still do. We met when we were 25. So we had gone through dating and marriage and kids and all this stuff. And we were super close, you know, when you self identify as a group. And we drank a ton. Like we used to go kayak camping every year.

Angela Pugh (56:32.517)
Yeah.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (56:38.122)
And like, it was to the point like, my God, who’s gonna stay up with Casey and Holly so they don’t fall in the fire? Like, you know, I see two moons, like kind of drunk. Like it was, was bad. Of our group of 10, five of us have stopped drinking in the last decade. Like, it’s kind of amazing. So if you are really close to someone and they drink the way you do, they might.

once you stop drinking, come to you and be like, so like, how’d you do that? Is it really better? Like, I’m kind of worried or like, you look a lot happier. You’re giving them permission, inspiration to question. And they may push you away at first, because you’re making them uncomfortable and looking at their own drinking. like five out of 10, and by the way, the other five like,

Okay, one of them may drink too much, but the other four are super. They only drank so much because I drank so much and we were pushing it on them, you know?

Angela Pugh (57:43.14)
Yeah. Yeah, I was definitely the ringleader in the drinking war for sure.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (57:48.104)
Yeah, like let’s open another bottle. Let’s keep pouring like, you know.

Angela Pugh (57:53.02)
my gosh, so crazy. Okay, I literally could talk to you all day, but we’re an hour in and I’m sure my listeners would appreciate an ending. Okay, last question, favorite question. What is your favorite thing about being an alcohol-free person?

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (58:04.63)
Yes, of course.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (58:13.902)
my gosh. I mean, not hating myself in the morning. Like I used to hate putting on my eyeliner in the morning. I hated looking at my bloodshot and watery eyes. I hated talking to my daughter while looking in the rear view mirror. I mean, my favorite thing about not drinking is not waking up at 3 a.m., not feeling like shit, not saying to myself in the morning, what the fuck is wrong with you? Get your shit together.

All of that has gone away. Now, a ton of other amazing things have happened too, but like that’s my favorite thing.

Angela Pugh (58:51.492)
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for doing this episode with me. I so appreciate you. This has been such an incredible conversation and I just appreciate you taking the time and being so open and honest.

Casey Davidson | Hello Someday (59:05.71)
Thank you.