452 Transcript

Angela (00:19.374)
Hello, my friend. Welcome back to Addiction Unlimited. I’m your coach, Angela Pugh. Thank you for hanging out with me today, listening to the pod. You know, something I’ve been thinking about.

Angela (00:37.742)
Hello, my friend. Welcome back to Addiction Unlimited. I’m your coach, Angela Pugh. We’re gonna jump right in today. You know, getting older isn’t the same as growing up. And I think this is one of the strangest things you start to realize when you get sober. You can be a full grown adult. You can have a job in a house and a car, get married, have kids, run a business, make money. You can look in

Incredibly successful and responsible from the outside, and still be emotionally immature AF. And if you’ve gotten sober and found yourself wondering why everything feels so fucking hard, why you don’t know what you’re feeling, why disappointment sends you over the edge, why you procrastinate everything uncomfortable, why you can’t make a decision.

Why being told no feels like a personal attack. Well, there’s a reason for that. You stopped drinking, but now you have to learn all the shit drinking allowed you not to learn. Because getting older happens automatically. Growing up does not. And when alcohol becomes your primary coping mechanism, there are a whole bunch of life skills.

You simply don’t get much practice developing. You don’t learn how to tolerate disappointment because you drink when you’re disappointed. You don’t learn how to sit with uncomfortable feelings because you drink when you’re uncomfortable. You don’t learn how to manage boredom because you drink when you’re bored. You don’t learn how to have difficult conversations because you can avoid them and drink instead. You don’t learn how to delay gratification.

Because alcohol itself is instant gratification. I don’t like how I feel, drink. I want to feel different, drink. I want relief, drink. And then you get sober and suddenly you’re standing there at 30 or 40 or 50 years old going, wait, how the fuck do people do this? How do people just feel bad and continue with their day? How do people get disappointed and not lose their shit?

Angela (02:56.942)
How do people wait for things, have uncomfortable conversations? How do people know what they’re feeling? How do people make decisions when they don’t know how everything is going to turn out? How do people just deal with life? Because nobody told us that sobriety was going to require us to learn how to be grown-ups. We thought we were just supposed to stop drinking. And those are two very different things.

So today we’re going to talk about what emotional immaturity actually looks like in sobriety, why you probably don’t recognize it when you’re doing it, and the skills you have to start developing if you want to become someone who can actually handle life without needing to escape it.

And I have a story that I’ve shared on the podcast before, but it’s such a perfect example of this, right? I was probably in my second year sober, and I was getting a new bed frame. And I had found the perfect one, right? It was huge and unique and gorgeous. And the second I saw it, I was like, this is it. This is my bed. There was only one problem. There was only one place in my city that carried it.

And it wasn’t in stock. I had to order it, and it was gonna take something like four to six weeks to come in. Four to six weeks, which for me, as a super emotionally immature person, felt like an eternity. And obviously, this was a personal attack against me, right? I was pissed. I spent the entire day driving around.

Furniture store to furniture store, trying to find this bed. Because remember, too, this is a hundred years ago. We didn’t have like everything on the internet at our fingertips like we have today. But nobody had the damn bed. And I bitched about it all day long to every single person that would listen. As I’m driving around from store to store, I’m calling everybody just to complain about this injustice that was happening to me.

Angela (05:07.98)
Right? I couldn’t believe that I could not find a store that had this specific bed sitting there waiting for me to walk in and take it home that day. And ended up, I just bought a completely different bed. A bed I didn’t even really like that much. Why? Because I could have it that fucking day. Now at the time.

I didn’t sit back and think, wow, Angela, you seem to have some difficulty with delayed gratification and managing disappointment. Of course I did. I was two years sober. I didn’t understand any of that yet. I thought the problem was that nobody had my fucking bed. That was the problem. It was everybody else. It was the furniture stores. It was ridiculous that they didn’t have it. And even more ridiculous that it would take four to six weeks. What takes six weeks? Like, are we building this fucking thing from scratch?

This is bullshit, right? That’s how my head worked. I had no idea what was actually happening. I wanted something. I couldn’t have it immediately. That created disappointment and frustration. I didn’t know how to tolerate those feelings. So I spent an entire day trying to change the circumstances so I wouldn’t have to feel the feelings. And when I couldn’t change the circumstances, I made a worse decision just to make the discomfort stop.

I bought something I didn’t actually want. And that right there is where this gets important. Because how many decisions do we make because we can’t tolerate how we feel right now? We send the text, we buy the thing, we quit the job, we get into a relationship, we end the relationship, we order the food, we spend the money, we blow off the responsibility, we say fuck it, we drink.

And we don’t consciously think I am choosing immediate emotional relief over the outcome I actually want. We think, I want the fucking bed.

Angela (07:22.198)
Okay, quick break because I have to tell you about my newest Cozy Earth obsession. You guys already know I love Cozy Earth, and my latest obsession is the Cityscape cropped hoodie. I love this thing. It is so freaking soft. And not that thin, like flimsy sweatshirt, soft. Like sometimes I love that too, but this is

Thick and luxurious and ridiculously cozy. The inside has this super soft, velvety feel. And the fit is perfect. And I’m super picky about fit. I love a cropped hoodie, but I don’t want it weirdly short. Like I’m old AF, right? And I also don’t want it to be super boxy and sloppy looking. This one has enough structure that it actually looks put together.

But it feels like something I just want to live in. It’s exactly the kind of thing that I’ll throw on at home and then realize I need to run some errands and I go, I don’t even have to change. Like this is perfect. And if you’ve been wanting to try Cozy Earth, they make it really easy. There’s a return and exchange window if the fit isn’t right for you. And their pieces are backed by a warranty against manufacturing defects. So there’s really not much risk in giving it a try.

Head to cozyearth.com and use my code Angela for up to twenty percent off. That’s code ANGLE for up to twenty percent off.

Angela (08:57.036)
And if you see a post purchase survey, please be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on Addiction Unlimited.

Angela (09:10.56)
Okay, so the problem with emotional immaturity is when you’re in it, you don’t know you’re in it. You don’t recognize that you’re making a decision based on instant gratification. You don’t realize you’re having an adult temper tantrum because you didn’t get your way. You just think something shitty happened and now you’re pissed. And adult temper tantrums don’t necessarily look like a toddler throwing themselves on the floor at Target.

Right. We are much more sophisticated than that. We sulk, we withdraw, we get passive aggressive, we complain to everyone who will listen. We send dramatic texts, we make impulsive decisions, we punish people, we decide everything is unfair, we make everybody around us uncomfortable because we’re uncomfortable, or we just sit around and obsess over it for eight fucking hours.

Because apparently nobody told us that life is hard and we’re not going to get our way most of the time. Like seriously, I feel like somebody forgot to tell alcoholics this. I feel like we’re the only people that have some weird expectation that shit is just easy and rainbows and butterflies all the time, right? But the truth is, life does not cooperate. People will disappoint you. Things take longer than you want them to. You don’t always get invited.

People will tell you no, relationships don’t work out, you don’t get the job, people don’t respond the way you want them to, something you’re excited about will fall apart, you make plans and life goes, that’s adorable. Here’s what we’re actually doing. That’s life. But when you haven’t developed the ability to tolerate disappointment, you take all that shit personally.

Like, why is this happening to me? And that’s the phrase, right? That’s the phrase that is the key thing. If you catch yourself thinking or saying, why is this happening to me? Why does this always happen to me? Why won’t anything work out for me? Alcohol is the perfect companion for that kind of emotional immaturity because alcohol gives you an instant escape hatch.

Angela (11:32.224)
I don’t like how this feels. I know exactly how to change it. And if you do that over and over and over again for years, you’re not practicing anything else. That was one of the biggest problems I had when I got sober. I couldn’t even identify a feeling at all. My sponsor would be like, How do you feel about that? And I would just stare at him, like, I don’t fucking know. What do you mean? How do I feel? It was like he could have been speaking another language.

Then he’d start breaking it down. Do you feel disappointed? Do you feel embarrassed? Do you feel rejected? Do you feel afraid? And I’d be like, yes, that. That’s exactly how I feel. But I couldn’t have figured that out on my own because I wasn’t familiar with that language. I wasn’t familiar with feelings and the names for them because I drank my way through every feeling I ever had.

I had spent years escaping feelings instead of understanding them. So everything was basically, I feel good or I feel bad. And if I feel bad, make it stop. That was my entire emotional processing system. That was it. I feel good or I feel bad. And if I feel bad, make it stop.

I didn’t need a vocabulary for disappointment or rejection or embarrassment or insecurity or loneliness because the response was exactly the same. Drink. And you can’t manage a feeling you can’t even identify. That was something my sponsor had to teach me. I would say I was mad and he would make me go deeper, like, okay, what’s underneath that? Disappointment, embarrassment. Do you feel rejected? Did somebody hurt your feelings? Are you afraid? And

One of the frameworks he taught me was to look for fear underneath all of it. Am I afraid I’m not gonna get something I want? Or am I afraid I’m gonna lose something I already have? And that framework changed the way I understood myself. Because I’m fucking pissed doesn’t give me a lot to work with, right? But I’m afraid I’m gonna lose this relationship. Okay, that’s something to work with.

Angela (13:48.482)
I’m disappointed because I thought this opportunity was gonna work out. Okay. I’m embarrassed because I made a mistake and I’m afraid people are gonna think less of me. Okay. Now I understand what’s happening. And once I understand what’s happening, I have choices. I don’t have to immediately act on the feeling. I don’t have to fix it. I don’t have to escape it. I don’t have to make somebody else responsible for it. I can just have the fucking feeling.

That was revolutionary to me. Even boredom. I had no idea I was intolerant of boredom. I just thought boredom was something that happened to me, right? Again, happened to me. I want you to really pick up on that language. This is a big alcoholic thing. We think everything happens to us. It’s that victimhood and it will ruin your life.

But my sponsor, in his infinite compassion, basically pointed out, then go do something. He said, if you’re bored, you’re being boring. Boredom is a choice. And I was like, apparently I have some responsibility here, right? Imagine that. Boredom isn’t an emergency. Disappointment isn’t an emergency. Being uncomfortable isn’t an emergency. Having a bad day isn’t an emergency.

But when you’ve spent years with a button you can push that immediately changes your internal state, ordinary discomfort can feel unbearable when that button is gone. And this is why early sobriety can make you feel emotionally insane sometimes. You removed the thing you used to manage everything. Now you have to learn what to do instead. And for me, that included.

Learning how to be responsible in almost every area of my life. I avoided adulting with every ounce of energy I had, because underneath all of that avoidance was the fact that I didn’t trust myself to do things well. And this was interesting because I was also incredibly hyper-independent. I didn’t want anybody controlling me.

Angela (16:05.076)
I can literally do everything on my own and I built myself that way. That felt powerful to me. You don’t control me, I control me.

Angela (16:18.082)
And from the outside, some of that probably looks like confidence, but it wasn’t. It was incredibly insecure, especially when I was newly sober. It was very important to me to control how other people saw me. I wanted to look good. I wanted to live in the right place, the right car, have the right handbag. I wanted to be physically desirable. I wanted everything on the outside to communicate value.

Because I didn’t feel like I had much value on the inside. Because I didn’t have anything to offer internally, the external became the leader of the conversation. And I see versions of this now when I date. If I’m sitting across the table from a man and the entire conversation is about his success or his money or his possessions, what he owns, what he’s accomplished, I notice that.

Because I recognized that behavior. I had my own version of it. I needed the outside to tell a story about me that I didn’t believe internally. And I want to be clear there’s nothing wrong with having a beautiful house or driving a nice car or loving a gorgeous handbag. I still like nice shit. The difference is that today, my handbag doesn’t have a job. It doesn’t have to convince you that I’m valuable.

My home doesn’t have to prove anything about me because who I am is my value. The work I’ve done to become emotionally capable, to become fair, balanced, to become honest, to become emotionally intelligent, to become someone I trust.

And that actually started much earlier in my sobriety than I realized. One of the first changes I remember noticing was that I stopped lying. There’s a line in the AA Big book about that says

Angela (18:23.394)
And that actually started much earlier in my sobriety than I realized. One of the first changes I remember noticing was that I stopped lying. There’s a line in the AA Big book that says we will lie even when the truth would suffice. And that was true for me too. Alcoholics learn to lie for survival. And then eventually the lying takes on a whole life of its own.

I lied about little things, big things. I lied when I wanted to get out of something. I lied when I wanted attention. I lied when I needed to feel bigger and better than I actually was. And it was one of those things that made me believe I was a bad person because I knew I lied. Other people could see whatever version of me I showed them, but I knew the truth.

And this was something I heard my sponsor talk about in a meeting one day long before he was my sponsor. But he talked about all the little dumb lies we tell and how it affects us mentally, not being honest, not being trustworthy, not being dependable because we lie about things.

And that this was important for the people around us to be able to trust us. We have to stop lying. I listened to those words and I started applying it to my life because that’s what you’re supposed to do, by the way. Don’t just listen to the words and nod along. Actually apply it to your fucking life. Okay. And just a few months into my sobriety, I started realizing I’m becoming more honest. Not just about drinking, about everything.

And that was one of the first times I started thinking, wow, maybe I could actually be a good person. And I had never believed that about myself. I thought I was a piece of shit drunk and I would die a piece of shit drunk. And suddenly I had evidence that maybe I could be different. I could tell the truth. I could do the right thing. I could become somebody I respected.

Angela (20:30.892)
And that’s where real confidence starts, not from telling yourself you’re amazing, not from somebody else telling you you’re amazing, not from the house or the car or the handbag, but evidence.

Angela (20:46.956)
You build confidence by watching yourself handle your life. Every time you tell the truth when lying would be easier, that’s evidence. Every time you have the uncomfortable conversation instead of avoiding it, evidence. Every time somebody disappoints you and you don’t punish them for it, evidence. Every time you wait for something you really want, evidence. Every time you make a decision,

Without knowing exactly how it’s gonna turn out. That’s evidence. Every time you admit you screwed something up and clean up your mess, evidence. Every time you ask for help instead of pretending you know everything, evidence. Every time you have a terrible day and wake up the next morning without having destroyed your life, evidence. I can handle this. I can handle myself. And eventually,

I can trust myself with my life. That’s what has changed most for me. Today I manage my expectations. I don’t automatically expect everything to go my way. In fact, I pretty much understand that life is generally a lot of bullshit that doesn’t go your way. And that makes it a whole lot easier because I can manage my expectations. When something goes wrong, I don’t automatically interpret it as a personal attack.

Sometimes shit just doesn’t work out. Sometimes I’m disappointed. Sometimes I don’t get what I want. Sometimes I make a decision and the natural consequence of that decision sucks. And instead of immediately blaming somebody else or trying to escape how I feel, I can ask, like, okay, is this mine? Did I create this? Is there something I need to take responsibility for? Is there something I need to fix? Is there a boundary I need to set?

Do I need to have a conversation or do I simply need to accept that this isn’t going the way I wanted it to go?

Angela (22:45.024)
I trust myself to figure that out. I know I’ll do the right thing. I know I’ll make the best decision I can with the information I have. And if I make the wrong decision, I’ll clean it up. If somebody crosses a line, I’ll set a boundary. If I’m disappointed, I’ll be disappointed. If I’m scared, I’ll be scared and I’ll handle whatever comes next, no matter what. That’s emotional maturity.

It isn’t never getting upset. It isn’t never being impulsive. It isn’t having some perfectly regulated nervous system where you float peacefully through life while everybody else loses their shit. Sometimes you’re gonna lose your shit. You’re human. Growing up is recognizing what’s happening inside you and taking responsibility for what you do with it. And sobriety gives us the opportunity to finally learn that.

Because sobriety isn’t merely learning how not to drink. It’s learning how to live without needing alcohol to manage you. You learn how to wait, how to be disappointed, how to hear no, how to say no, how to be bored, how to apologize, how to ask for help, how to make decisions. You learn how to feel embarrassed without wanting to crawl out of your skin. You learn how to just let somebody misunderstand you.

You learn to survive rejection, how to accept consequences. You learn how to have difficult conversations. You learn how to want something without demanding that life hand it to you immediately. And you learn that feelings aren’t emergencies. And every single one of those experiences teaches you I can handle my life.

Angela (24:40.728)
So if you’re newly sober and you’re starting to recognize some of this in yourself, don’t use it as another reason to beat yourself up. Pay attention to it. Maybe, maybe you’re 45 years old and discovering you have the frustration tolerance of a 17-year-old. Okay, now you know. Maybe you realize you avoid every uncomfortable conversation. Maybe you realize you can’t stand being bored.

Maybe you realize you need everybody to approve of you. Maybe you make impulsive decisions because waiting makes you crazy. Maybe you procrastinate anything that makes you uncomfortable until it becomes an emergency. Maybe you have no fucking idea what you’re feeling half the time. That’s where you start. You practice because these are skills, and skills get stronger when you use them.

You don’t need to become a different person overnight. You just need to stop escaping every opportunity life gives you to practice. Let yourself be disappointed and wait. Have the conversation, make the decision, tell the truth, take responsibility, ask for help, feel the feeling, clean up the mess, and then pay attention to what happens afterward. Because every time you do one of those things, you’re becoming somebody you can trust.

And this is why I say getting older isn’t the same as growing up. Getting older just happens. Growing up is learning how to handle yourself when life doesn’t go your way.

It’s learning how to identify what you’re feeling instead of immediately trying to escape it. It’s learning how to make a good decision, even when this shitty decision would make you feel better right now. It’s taking responsibility when something is yours, setting a boundary when it isn’t, telling the truth, having the conversation, cleaning up your mess, and trusting yourself to deal with whatever happens next.

Angela (26:49.6)
And this is the part of recovery I don’t think we talk about enough. Quitting drinking is incredibly important, but quitting drinking is the starting line. It’s what gives you the opportunity to finally learn all this shit. And that’s what’s in it for you. You don’t just become someone who doesn’t drink, you become someone who can handle disappointment without falling apart, who can have a bad day without turning it into a bad week, who can make decisions without being paralyzed by fear.

Someone who can have difficult conversations, someone who doesn’t need everybody else to behave a certain way in order to be okay. That’s freedom. Because when you know you can handle yourself, you don’t have to spend your entire life trying to control everything around you. And if you’re listening to this and thinking, okay, this is exactly where I am. I’ve stopped drinking or I’m working on it.

But I don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to do with everything underneath it. This is exactly the work I do with my clients. We don’t just focus on not drinking. We figure out what’s actually hard for you right now, where you’re getting stuck, what patterns keep talk.

We figure out what’s actually hard for you right now, where you’re getting stuck, what patterns keep taking you out. And we start building the skills and tools you need to handle your actual life. And if you want me to help with that, go to addictionunlimited.com forward slash call and book a call with me.

We’ll talk about where you are, what’s going on, what kind of support makes sense for you. And I do have several options for different people, different situations, different fits, because you don’t know.

Angela (28:36.148)
Because you don’t have to know how to do all of this today, but you do have to start practicing. And eventually something that would have ruined your entire day 20 years ago happens and you realize, like, this sucks, and I’m okay. You wanted the bed, the bed takes six weeks. Order the fucking bed and go live your life. It’ll get here when it gets here. That’s growing up.

Until next time, my friend, I hope you’re having a fantastic day, and I’ll see you next week.